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Pacifica National Finance Committee (NFC)
meeting notes, 8-2-05

These meeting notes are unofficial.
Official PNB minutes posted at pacifica.org

Audio Archive at www.kpftx.org

These notes paraphrase statements made by attendees at the meeting (two hours). Most was done in one listen, so there may be some inaccuracies. To find out the exact words, listen to the audio at www.kpftx.org

- Written by James Ross, wbai.net contributor

Meeting via teleconference


--CFO gives report on comparison of cash position of stations projected end of FY 05 compared to end of FY 04.
--much confusion about what an adequate end of FY surplus is. CFO appears to say one month at end of FY is not adequate. others take objection to this position. This was a major topic throughout the call. It was also stated by the CFO that income raised in previous years did not count toward the one-month reserve.
--interesting but inconclusive discussion about where PRA gets its money -- is it from central services via NO, or does PRA raise all its money with mailings, KU band, etc. (not from stations)?
--discussion of address immediate network needs (from WBAI [operating], WPFW [capital], etc.). lack of support for line of credit.
--NFC endorses 2-3 national fundraising days in October (for whatever), and then another 2-3 in December (for WPFW's capital needs).
--forms working group (WG) to develop interunit transfer policy ASAP, in case there is need at WBAI for money from another station in September.
--FY06 budgeting process is well along in stations. same disagreement about the one-month requirement. CFO feels KPFK cannot use its surplus from previous years. KPFK reps feel it can.
--plan to standardize budgeting at all stations.
--discussion of CFO's latitude to change budget.

tattersall: thanks for having me as chair -- think role is to keep focus on agenda, move toward consensus, spead as little as possible, work for balanced dialog.


ad Adelson, KPFK PNB
al Allen, KPFT PNB
be Bediako, WBAI LSB treasurer
he Heffley, WBAI PNB
mc McFall, KPFT LSB treasurer
ro Roberts, WPFW PNB
ta Tattersall, KPFA LSB treasurer, chair
ga Gatewood, WPFW LSB treasurer
we Weinmann, KPFT LSB treasurer
wi Williams, KPFA PNB
hi Hicks, CFO

lane (iED) also on call

AGENDA (proposed and adopted)

approve minutes
continuing work group report on immediate financial needs -- lonnie has cash flow projections
FY 06 budget status, process, etc.
directors inepction update
status of working groups
schedule next meeting

ro: adopt agenda

ad: has KPFK questions, put into FY 06 section

agenda approved

ad: let's excuse people who wrote in, otherwise no...

ta: has received no requests for excuses


mc: you all have minutes of 7/15. 7/21, 8/2

ad: re 7/15 motion by weinmann re national of day of fundraising that was not disposed of. should be comment about it.

mc: yes. what should it say.

ad: add "motion was not acted on"

ad: next meeting it came that the working group looked at it.

mc: sandy's motion was regarding fundraising. next week motion was broupght to form working group

ro: put "motion was not acted on"

ad: re 7/15 should not that ED is not committe member. should say in all minutes

ta: add suggested language, can approve as amended.

7/15 approved

ta: 7/21 minutes

ad: same point re lane

7/21 approved as amended

ta: 7/29 minutes

ad: same point re lane, camapanella. also a motion to revise agenda that did not pass.

ad: i made the motion that marnie serve as chair pro tem

7/29 minutes attended


ta: start with lonnie re point 3, NO direct mail appeal for funds.

hi: five items that working group looked at. re three proposals. recap. group met twice. three proposals: 1) short-term line of credit. needs re capital costs, flat revenues. then WBAI was 400K short drive. but in mid summer drive WBAI reached 487K. 2nd proposal: synchronized drives in October -- 2 days ant the beginning or end of drive. 3rd proposal: mailing from NO in mid september

line of credit would be strictly controlled with strings. re line of credit, question is collatoral. uncollatoralized loan was looked at 7.5% interest rate. complex negotiations -- is prepayemnt OK? sweep account w/reduced bank charges? (bank charges are high at Pacifica).

focus on item 3 -- NO mailing: will mailing hit local station mailing list -- no would be acquisition list from other progressive orgs, except for archives list. 3 mailings from NO in the past year or so. do this one for all stations rather than ... track record to national group -- there are 8000 -9000 people out there who will support national Pacifica initiatives.

theme: possibly "rainy day fund" from roberts

what do we really need -- i have amalgamated from stations. sent around by email. won't go into detail unless asked. at 9/30 most stations won't have one month in cash. bottom line -- we will be short 347K in the network. to compare, on 9/30/04, network had 1.6 million in cash in the bank. current FY ending cash project 1.265 million.

so there is less cash than last year. compare cash stations have at beginning of year with the cash at the end of year.

PRA b 95K e -45K why: central service funds not forthcoming
KPFA b 753K e 831K that's good, but there is a problem. on 9/30 where do you get funds for next month? that number is posted in cach and capital in the monthly statements. they had to use savings. see impact at end of fiscal
KPFK b 397K e 532K good but monthly expense are 317K, will raise number

ga: it looks like K has more than enough to cover the one month. what is the problem

hi: if your savings has accumulated money from prior years ...

ga: i am assuming in october 04 they had the same issue. they had to spend their cash in oct 04. this snapshot is easy to follow, except your words don't follow the numbers.

ad: i hear the same thing. K and the other station has the one month plus. we have agreed that the one month policy does not require each station to raise 13 months revenue in 12 months, only that there be a one month reserve at the end. so K has the required one month reserve. also A has its needs covered

hi: but that 532K goes away in october. have to take 184K from ending balance. so 532K is no longer 532K. by 10/30 it's only 349K. the next shoe falls. take money from october drive. then you have used october money to pay september bills. the 532K gets reduced. pretty soon the reserve won't be there

ga: still don't see why the numbers you've given us are anything but a snapshot.... looks like, as a network, we are 347K behind where we were last year. why is it any different this year than last year.

hi: look at the other stations. KPFK is not the example.

ga: the difference between this year and last year, network wide is very clear from the numbers you've given

hi: yes. K is not the example you focus on. we should focus on that some stations will have a deficit

KPFT b a off by 125K
WBAI off by 250K
WPFW will have about 29K as cash

so network will be short 354K at end of year. that will grow by october 30.

(32:57 hour 1)

be: 2 questions 1 -- the archives deficit is due to missing goals at WBAI and otherstations?

hi: yea, when any station does not meet its revenues, its central service contribution drops. also if station does not have the one month.. they have to root around, gets hidden

be: don't understand how archives is impacted. the 1-2% that was to go to archives -- that is not going to archives now. archives is standing on its own now. don't see how how wbai shortfall will imnpact archives

hi: true that archives are not receiveing directely 2.5% percent. but NO pays out to PRA. those funds are paid out -- like 160K -- PRA and NO are combined. on cash level 200K. why would NO be short 2000K. revenue we anticipate is not forthcoming. 80K is from WBAI shortfall. also in that 200K is other shortfalls from other stations

be: how is archives funded -- are they responsibel fro their own funding or do they get disbursement from NO

he: 4-5 yra ago funding mechanism for PRA was changed. move to self-sustaining strategy, incl mail drops. just like NO, we are too dependent on indiv stations. PRA can make money off their producte. this is where mail drop strategy begins. how can NO and PRA ...

be: OK ...l I'm not sure

ad: don't give up - keep trying

hi : all funds come to NO, and are redirected to PRA

be: is that the 2.5%, or do you do your own internal assessment of what you can afford?

hi: they are part of NO, we work with them to raise money on the air. so that they will have additional sources of income. help them with mail drops. we take all the money coming to NO, sit down with archives, figure our a way to raise the money, so they don't lose money, but increase their money. money to archives has increased has increased over 4 years by 300K. that's because we have worked hard to raise money to increase their budget.

be: need to digest that... my key question -- what is the one-month reserve for the whole network

hi: 1.5 million. last year we had it.

be: that should be in consolidated budget

hi: audit statement from 2004 shows last yr we had 1.6 million. we need that 1.6 million

ad: goes between 1.2 and 1.37 million.

hi: if you divide revenue and expense for this network, you will find we need 1.4-1.5 million. that's the cash we need. to run this network every month

he: you were commenting that money around the network could cover some of these costs --- why would stations be more willing to pay a line of credit back more readily than money they borrow from themselves.

ro: this is money stations borrow from themselves. if a station does that, they will replenish over the course of a year

he: don't understand what the difference

hi: are you asking the difference betw a line of credit and paying the money back to someone else, or yourself?

he: i am asking why you commented that people wouldn't pay themselves back, but would pay back a line of credit.

la: 7.5% interest is incentive

hi: you want to get that bill out of the way. what stations do -- happens every year -- they will take money from october drive, do payroll, postpone bills till november. take cash from savings or look ot make cost reductions. or they will increase the drive totals to pay back, which is what WBAI did. that's what KPFA is doing. some increase revenues. some take cost reduction route

when you start process of dipping into previous years, something has to be said. you have.. how many stations will be doing it, what do we do, once we understand the problem

getting harder and harder to raise money at Pacifica

he: so it makes little sense to get a line of credit, because what you are saying is that we are going further behind. we are borrowing money to stay alive. it might be better to have reasonable budgets. we saw this coming over a year ago. i don't understand why the network itself doens't hunker down. we are already paying interest on legal bills. why would we increase this cost by borrowing money.

we need to figure out how to get over this. otherwise we are never going to learn. we have to figure it out within ourselves. maybe don't give raises, don't get a consultant. but as long as it's a never-ending spigot of money , we never have to change.

this is what i think when i hear you talking aobut paying back a loan, when i hear you saying we are falling behind all the time. owing more money is bad

ad: first -- talking about what you call "Savings" is going into the one month reserve -- that is what the reserve is there for. if you want a one month reserve at the beginning of october drive, that is a change in policy. you should say we want a 1.5 month reserve at end of fiscal. to suddenly call the reserve "savings" when it is really the one-month reserve creates a problem, we can spend time on it, but i am sure the others on the call know what we are talking about.

to answer bediako q -- look at this years consolidated statement, look at monthly actuals. for octo 1.17, nov 1.28, dec 1.28, jan, feb 1.21 (million), mar up to 1.36 (slaray increases) looks like a reasonal estimate of network-wide one-month is 1.4 million

look at KPFK in that budget, prior year surplus, there is a 0, clearly it is not zero. we had over a month reserve at that point. in general, surplus prior year numbers do not correspond, this is a problem.

re baruti's q -- why would low drive numbers at that stations impact PRA? if it's not central service payments are affected? whether NO acts as a banker is not germane - q is what is the revenue sources and why aren't they matching.

lastly, you mention these cash flow numbers may change when incorporate summer WBAI drive going over goal. that should be 105K. should put WBAI's ending position at -145K, correct?

hi: well -- KPFK's surplus prior year IS zero. that cash and capital says you do not plan to use that surplus.

ad: so "surplus prior year" is not really surplus prior year.

hi: no, because if you do not plan to use it. K does not need to. other stations need to. that is why that section is there.

ad: but that number gets added into what your one-month reserve is. it's not only what your planning to use. it does not show what your one-month reserve is, and we are back to the notion that stations need to raise 13 months of income every year.

hi: we've been going around and around on this issue. i hear you are totally conviced there is two months required

ad: no, you have agreed that it is not required

hi: i'd like to put this to bed on these calls. does this look like two months. you had 400K at beginning of year, 532 at the end. those monies are monies you had at the beginning of the year. accounting practices -- you are required to separated money you had from previous year from money raised during the current year. that is what enron did, that is why they went ot jail. you cannot make your profit look better than it is by adding in previous year's profits. talk to an acocuntant.

let's go to previous year. you did not have to use prior year's money in this budget. other stations did.

now WBAI -- i never try to calculate on a phone call

ad: let me ask -- the numbers that were calculated -- they were calculated assuming WBAI would just make its 325K goal.

hi: we will not agree. you think it's two months, i don't agree

ro: one thing on PRA, we asked Brian, they liked the new formula, don't they get money from KU satellite, mail drops, etc.

hi: yes

ro: re line of credit. let's decide i want 500K in bank at all times for emergencies. if i do my budget for the new year i don't to build up reserve, because i already did it.

if the policy is to set one month aside, and i already have one month set aside. why do i need to set it aside again?

hi: you will uyse it without any process, you will be desparate

ro: if we say we are in an emergency situation, contemplating a line of credit. why can

(1:00:15 hour 1)

ro: in october will right ourselves. what is different this yer?

hi: we have less cash available to us--less by 347K

ro: do you consider 347K sufficient to move into emergency mode?

hi: we could have faith that WBAI will make up its shortfalls. what is prudent is not to take it on faith. if WBAI is wrong, it is a network problem. every station will have to pitch in to help out

(end of first hour)

ro: if i am a station with money in reserve, with 400K. and in October i use 200K. then in January i have to dip in some more and then the reserve is zero. let's say that might happen. how does having a line of credit help in this situation, where i can't replenish reserve.

hi: when you let a station dip into prior year funds with no controls. they don't make the hard decision to fix things. a line of credit would be different. let's say we tell a station that they can't spend reserve w/o network authorization.

a line of credit would help --- we would insist on strings to touch either your own savings or line of credit.

WBAI has no reserve. other stations don't have the reserve they might need. who has access to reserve and how much are they going to be short 10/30.

al: two questions. 1) how much is NO making per year on sidebands. i want to look at income

hi: that is in the income statement. FTA is projected 474K this year. used to be 800K. this income will be dipping.

al: are you still making money from T on sidebands

hi: not sure

al: you should be, we gave two clients, that money goes to NO.

al: how much total do we make from affiliates? does that go to archives

hi: archives gets all income from affiliates. projecting them to get 105K. -

al: we are making progress w/ affiliates yes

hi: yes. affiliates $ used to come to NO. last year diverted to affiliates.

we: re line of credit. (to hicks) you are carrying argument from both sides. the idea behind a natl fundraiser is for stations to help other stations. line of credit is last possibility. if it was to be used for capital, transmitter, etc. but that is not this. we are just trying to pay our regular bills

i don't see need for line of credit in this case

hi: th line of credit is not the goal. three fundraising ideas are not mutually exclusive. you are right, we must have along-term strategy that would produce revenue and value

we: borrwoing money at this point is not called for and dangerous. bankers know worth of licenses. put our own house in order first. have their been staff cuts at WBAI yet?

hi: can't answer this question

we: we would have heard if there were. so we have not taken step one in the face of a crisis. several hundred dollar shortfall. i am not giving a teenager a credit card.

be: WBAI budget for 05-06 has cut 4 FTEs. in effect 10/1

ta: summary -- three concepts - line of credit. seems dead in the water. i hear people prefer synchronized fund drives or NO mailing. we have spent over an hour on this. let's move forward.

ro: underestand concerns re use of line of credit. WPFW has dire needs in terms of space. need 430K to get new building. we need to think where we can get those funds. this is an immediate need for us

hi: this is not about the line of credit. try to come up with a better idea. don't just criticize. challenge members of this committee to come up with better ideas. want to come away from this call with ideas about what we should be doing.

we: what about national fund drive

hi: good. i like it. i like the mailing. it's the responsible thing to do. every speaker here should present something positive about what we can do

ad: i disagree that we are ready to move off this point. one issue is the timing. when to do what. even if there is cash in system, it does not necessariliy exist in the units that need it. disagree with framing of issue re one month reserve. use of one month reserve to cover emergencies is acceptable. am willing to consider increasing the requirement to 1.5 months

there is a 1.4 million need, 1.25 million in system, which could come up. that is what you need to get through full month. money will come in before the end of the month. need to agree how interunit transfers will happen. need to identify if we need to do any extra fundraising. don't support line of credit.

re WPFW's capital need -- that is not a rainy day fund, that is a capital fund. different thing. we can clearly get listeners to respond to that nationally.

lastly, KPFK, as a station that has not had a summer drive, may be in a position to help. have raised this with LSB and staff. what are we going to show about fiscal responsibility nationwide.

(20:06 of hour 2)

wi: what i hear is a lot of narrative. but finance is numbers. that would make it go faster. also the accounting issue re one month. if we looked at a balance sheet rather than income that would work better. follow non-profit accounting. we need a real cash flow statement and analysis every month. saves a lot of discussion. and be in line w/ not for profit accting stds

agree w/ adelson point that WPFW drive is capital, makes sense for network to help raise funds.

also, re cash flow analysis. LOis (KPFA business manager) knows how to use great plains to provide it. maybe at next PNB can have business managers and finance committee learn how to do analysis. that would save time. can't follow narrative, need numbers

finally, need to have management practices in place before getting line of credit. job of management, is to manage the cash. once management practices are in place, and you address salaries and costs that are now out of line, then we can go to line of credit.

ga: i would like us to consider that we move forward funding in amount of 350K, or alternatively, figure out how to get that. then send it back to working group.

hi: agree that we need to back with it. this is not all about line of credit. let's go back and come back with another idea. let's move on to FY 06.

ga: well, i am interested in 06. would you have a problem with the NFC sending to the working group get a plan to raise 350K.

hi: monthly cash flow projections have been developed for A,I, W, and T. those are available month by month. only reservation w/gatewood proposal, don't want to go to working group and come back with no acceptane. want to cll roll here. do we have a problem or not.

ga: if we have consensus we need to cover 350K shortfall. with understanding that we are not comfortable with line of credit. this can go back to working group to flesh out.

la: instead of sending it back anywhere, why not vote on the last three days of Oct drive to meet network needs. recommend a capital needs drive in december.

ad: my issue with Jane's point is the 350K. we are 350K behind where we were last year. this is not the same as having a need for 350K. based on one month, we need 1.4 million. more important - the need for these funds is not where they exist. we need a policy on moving money from unit to unit.

re synchronizing. moving drive forward a week reduces the need for the reserve -- less time to wait. what we really need a set of agreements that govern transfer of funds

ro: i agree that we waste time. we have the number is 1.7 million. i accept it. i agree that we should go back to the working group. leve the capital needs for over. if we wait til 2nd week of october, will tyhere be a need for cash reshuffling before then.

hi: yes probably

ro: then adelson point re transfers is relevant.

hi: october is a long way off for a station with problems

ro: will the working group dealing with inter unit transer issues?

ad: these are related. also related to FY 06 budgets. we at KPFK plan to use our surplus on things that will help us grow. we may prefer to do additional fundraising

ga: move that we send this back to committee with lane proposal. please work out problems of timing, inter unit transfers.

move toe send back to working group with a strong endorsement for the concept of a synchronized october drive -- 2 days, and a december national drive for capital funding. with the understanding that the committee needs to address the details

wi: say 2-3 days for capital drive. also should ask GMs

ad: teh problem is the timing. we are foregoing any addition fundraising. the money does need to be made up. sources of surplus need to know asap.

this committee needs to ID immediately if any fundraising needs to be done, and get a policy on IUTs. what i can see happening i K;s surplus being taken, and other stations can't take it back. had we known in advance, K could have fundraised in august.

ro: but this was discussed in working group. september drive was thrown out in working group. GMs want us to do fund drive in October

we: substitute motion -- this committee recommends a national drive. working committee fleshes out details. take out words strong endorsement.

hi: welcome motion for october drive and december drive. but september need is not covered. would amend motion to address september need. include language, that committee will look at likelihood that there is a need in september.

ad: don't we already know there is a need in september.

ro: this addressed the IUT question

ad: K may ....

ga: maybe we need a motion to ask K to raise money for T and I

ad: i have asked out LSB to discuss this and our staff.

ta: two motions -- october drive and also IUT motion re september

ga: better to say that the NFC endorses the working group's proposal for an october 2-3 day synchronized national fundraising campaign .... and sends it back to WG to finalize

MOTION: NFC endorsed the WG proposal for a synchronized october drive that includes 2-3 days national fundraising and a december capital fund drive. GMs for all stations shall be included in WG discussions.

ta: the WG will meet within the next five days. hicks is moving this along


ad p y
al y
be y
he n
ro y
ta y
ga y
we y
wi p
hi y

motion carries

ta: motion re likelihood of september needs and IUTs

ad: maybe should be in a separte working group. also both K and A have reserves that can be transferred

wi: this goes back to IUTs. still questions in report recently from lonnie. although baruti has outlined FTE reductions in 06, there are no reductions in current year. it would be good to work in goals to address some of the management issues would be a better comfort level

la: why don't we refer this (IUT policy) to the coordinating committee?

mc: IUT issue belongs in NFC much more than fundraising.

ro: get an IUT workgroup, review document, get policy

ad: K can offer 2% less than a commercial lender

hi: would like the working group come up with plans for september. want to separate these issues

be: think IUTs and september needs are related. if we are to have $1.2 million by september, we know we will have money for september. key q is IUTs. how to shift to entities with shortfalls and how about repayment. IUT policy is key.

ad: agree. if a station knows it is going to be drawing from money somewhere else, what are the strings, is there anything station has to do right now, or can station treat network money as their own? IUT policy will evovle. but this policy must be done right now. may want to do fundraiser right now.

working group charged with IUTs should come back as soon as possible.

wi: get some one with expertise in great plains, get simple agreements -- do you pay back the station who gave you the money or do you pay back central services? people who dictate the terms are the ones who have the funds.

ga: can you chair this WG?

wi: yes.

hi: let's move the agenda.

ta: can we get a motion for this working group?

ga: who wants to be on WG?

wi: i would work with adelson, since K has funds, also heffley and bediako, since WBAI needs money. lois weathers A treasurer, has expertise on great plains.

ad: suggest mcfall from KPFK

ro: why have someone who is not an NFC member?

wi: need help w/ software

hi: don't think it is a software issue. need to be clear about charge.\

(end of hour 2)

hi: i think the charge should be to develop a policy around IUTs w/in 10 days

wi: we are looking at the short term now

hi: something that will be usable shortly

ro: can we agree to that

ta: who will be on it - adelson and weinmann volunteer.

ad: amend motion to develop IUTs to address urgent cash flow problems around the network

al: recommend someont contact Donna Warren, audit committee has worked on this

wi: working group will meet 8/4 5:30 pm

adopt charge re working group

ro: is the other group supposed to return in 10 days

ta: yes

other working group meets 1 pm 8/5.

hi: who is on fundraiser group

roberts, allen say yes.

next NFC is 8/16 4:30 PST


hi: calendar has gone out for adoption of budget. please get budgets in a timely way.

many issues around budget process. who is in charge -- GM, LSB, CFO, NFC, PNB? who gets to put what in the budget when. some LSBs feel they have a right to put items in budget. what is role of finance committee in approva.

what shall be the policy around stations producing a balanced budget? and what is a balanced budget? who owns prior years' surpluses at stations? what about putting items in budget that have no funding source?

PRA is looking to balance its budget. has a september direct mailing. could get ahead, two month surplus. also on air drive, contemplate second mailing in spring

NO... can it be balanced. if NO mailing gets bumped to network needs its a problem. cap on revenue next year? not clear if it can be assumed that revenue will maintain next year

KPFA -- has challenges. looking at cost cuts. has to reduce budget by 100K.

KPFK has 60K deficit in balancing budget

KPFT -- has balanced budget. will looko to use surplus funds to balance budget in FY06. depends how well they finish this year.

WBAI -- is not going to be able to develop a full one month reserve. has not as yet identified .. h ve producesd a pro forma budget

WPFW still has issue about moving. on paper looks like they will be able balance.

wait til LSB review.

ad: we have gone over this a number of times. to you -- a balanced budget means that you generate a one month reserve out of current operations. is that correct?

hi: yes

ad: that says you have to generate 13 months in 12 months. but in previous calls it has been stated that this is NOT the policy. so one reason we go over and over this is you say different things at different times. i would say that the board policy is very clear -- that each station have a one month reserve at the end of each fiscal. that is not the same as generating a one month reserve out of current year operations every year.

now you said that KPFT would have to use surplus funds to balance budget in FY06.

(22:35 hour 3)

but you made the statement that KPFK would be 60K short. why can't K use surplus funds from a prior year to balance the budget, given that T does it

hi: you could fix the 68K problem

ad: this is money that was raised from K listeners to support the station

hi: raised in prior years though

ad: just because we didn't get it spent by october doesn't mean it goes away. excess monies don't disappear on 9/30. this goes against board policy.... as to whom surplus funds belong to, they are given by listeners to support the station. for a non-profit to raise money for one thing and spend it on another could actually trigger lawsuits. we need to develop clarity around to that policy. but th e starting point should be that the surplus belongs to the station where is was raised

the bylaws say that LSB approves the budget, PNB adopts. the point of the budgeting process is that the LSB's budgeting authority is that the LSB sets priorities for the stations.

hi: let's come up with a way of resolving these issues. we don't have an answer right now]

he: is there a job description for CFO that would clarify responisibilites so we know who is supposed to what. if the board could see th at, it could see what you rduties are, then take the bylaws, and we could clarify chain of command. i am asking the ED for the job desription/hire letter for CFO.

ta: was there a working goroup on budget format that went sideways

mc: yes, we had a group that worked on line items going sideways. problem is knowing what is in the line items. sometimes station personnel did not know either. this WG stopped when people got too busy.

ga: i would like to be on this WG. working w/ our budget this year there are problems.

ta: suggets jane be in charge of this WG. believe Pacifica needs a budget template uniform by all the stations. i would recommend a column 06 budgete 05 forecast, 05 budget 04 audited actuals and variance of 06 budget from all those numbers. also need salary headcount tab in all budget workbooks. need an organization chart for each unit. and need to budget for raises. better to budget and not give than give and not budget.

need clarity on who is reviewing the national budget. does not need to be reviewed by LSBs. In next LSB meeting hope to bring foreward what Lois (A business mgr) and Roy have brought forth.

and i would like to have some of these conventions of what should be in a budget workbook.

ro: agree with this. you could be on working group with Jane. re NO budget. NFC looked at that and PRA, and asked questions we needed. maybe this WG could provide in 10 days.

ta: hicks says august is a good time for the NFC to review NO budget

mc: we ended up doing exactly what you recommend, in order to base our budget on those things. the problem is, we have only one line item for salaries, and don't know the breakdown. we could share the template

re budgeting process. we had a difficult time because we've approached our process in an open manner, LSB has spent time in strategic planning. budgeted for that with the changing understading of what our surplus is. this process has included volunteers, LSB and staff. this is our understanding of how a volunteer organization with maximum financial transparency should work

then, NO took some of our goals out of the budget, without knowing what they were or how they were budgeted. so we put them back in. think this is not the way to work in a volunteer organization. our communiyt has learned to work together beyond differences. to have one person come in and say no doesn't work.

also, our committee put those items back in, knowing what our reserve was, and that we do have a surplus. so i would like to have clarity re the process. we need immediate decisions what that process is

ga: a couple of weeks ago, our lsb requested national budget... is that a possibiliey

hi: don't know what central services are before stations do their budget. will have an idea in the middle of august.

ro: when do ballots need to be received by

ta: by the 16th. could count before next meeting

ga: PRA line item is deleted? we don't pay PRA anymore; it's taken out of central services?

hi: yes

ga: finally, at WPFW, we have had luxury of working with staff and reviewing headcount in detail. that should be the way it works everywhere.

we: T management working with LSB and staff and we are getting the info we request.

ad: bylaws are clear, LSBs approve budget, PNB adopts, CFO job description in bylaws describes nothing about any authority over the budgeting process. so i'd like to move that it is Pacifica's policy that CFO and NO can make suggestions re budgets to LSB or PNB but is not empowered to make any changes without approval of LSB or PNB.

al: i would like you to explain a little more. if you had a renegade LSB that wanted to spend money on something bad, no one could stop them?

ad: well, you could have a renegade CFO as much as a renegade LSB. but the point is that the bylaws are clear -- LSB approves, PNB adopts. let's say an LSB approves a budget that cannot be met in 80 days of fundraising. the PNB still has to adopt that budget before it is in force. but the point is that the budget that comes to the PNB should not be changed w/o LSB's approval. CFO can recommend that PNB not adopt it and adopt a different one. it is unclear what would happen if the PNB adopted budget that the LSB did not approve

but the main point is that there is no deliniation of role for CFO in adopting budgets. there is a clear authority for the others. this just underscores that, so that the CFO knows he cannot alter budgets.

hi: i don't want to make a speech, but i am being pushed. it has not been established what the CFO's role is in budgeting. PNB has estabvlished parameters budgets must meet. CFO must amalgamate and communicate. my role is to produce a balanced budget. no LSB can produce an unbalanced budget. i ask each LSB " is your budget balanced?

what is it about KPFK i took out? what it was was expenses that would put thjat station in deficit. LSB voted itself 12K. voted for outreach that had potential conflict of interest -- LSB member profiting from it.

mc: i object to this assertion.

hi: when i looked at your budget, i saw that it was not balanced

mc: the budget was incomplete -- you came in in the middle of our process.

hi: when i looked at that budget. 85K worth of new expenses. i questioned it to the GM. whgo will benefit from those expenses. if i think a member of the LSB or PNB member will benefit, i will bring it up. still it wasn't balanced. GM came to me looking for help.

i offered my recommendations. to say i "took it out" is not true. if you want me to take stuff out and be a czar, i'll do it. if you put 85 K worth of new expenses you need to say where funds come from.

she will work with you to provide a balance budget. need to go back to the drawing board to get this done.

ta: can we table this motion?

mc: there have been accusations of conflict of interest for our LSB, leaving that hanging is not OK

ad: (to tattersall) you can make motion to table

al: i move that this issue be discussed between KPFK reps on NFC adn iED and CFO, and report back at next NFC meeting

ad: point of order, there is a motion on the floor. whatever happened with KPFK's budget is a different issue.

hi: move to table adelson motion

ta: second (not needed). we need to get off this call

ad: we need a vote to table.

? motion to table is not debatabe

MOTION to table

ad n
al n
be a
he n
mc n
ta y
wi n
hi y

motion to table fails

ad: we can just adjourn meeting, this becomes first item on next agenda.

al: i can appreciate position CFO was in, can appreciate KPFK'sLSBs concerned. would suggest that iED and people form KPFK finance cte work thru this problem.

hi: want to be at KPFK at 8/20 LSB meeting

ad: it's appropriate for lonnie to say things to LSB adn LSB must follow PNB board policy. but this clarifies that CFO cannot make changes by himself. i don't want to get into a discussion of what was taken out of KPFK budget. i want to get our budget passed.

hi: move to adjourn

al: no objection. but since this is personal, needs to be worked through.

ta: one thing i missed is that GM needs to be there for meeting at K

mc: motion on the floor.

ad: typically, when time ends, any business needs to be disposed of.

hi: motion was not on agenda

mc: FY 06 budget process was on agenda, this motion addresses that.

al: would have liked to have seen motion in advance.

ad: should try to get consensus of the group. maybe we should table it. make it first item at next meeting

ta: OK w/ no objection, we will table it, and agree to pick it up first at next meeting. (ED note -- what they really want to do is postpone, not table).

al: what is the address to send ballot (gets answer).

he: make sure that we get clarificition from Lonnie re K budget and conflicts of interest. i don't understand it. and with all this oversight, don't see why our foundation is in disarray. this meeting has said a lot. i really don't understand our foundation finances. they are more obscure than ever.


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